Salve. Let's start from the latest news regarding ESOTERIC…
- We have very recently released our Third Album with EIBON Records (Italy). It is titled "Metamorphogenesis" and is 44 minutes long, containing three tracks. As with all of our releases, we have progressed and evolved within our creative processes. Sadly, one of our long-term guitarists, Gordon has left the band this week (today's date is 22/8/99). It was not unexpected and should not affect the progression of the band. We are looking for a new guitarist to join us as his replacement. His leaving will not affect the writing process as it has been for the past three or four years, as he has not written any songs we have recorded since "Epistemological Despondency" was released. So, the main body of ESOTERIC remains and will always continue.
If I'm
not mistaken, you consider your music to be "dark, vicarious,
pernicious,
sinister, hateful, drug-influenced, tortured, philosophical, and barbaric
doom"… Please, explain further.
- Our music must be heard in order for the description to have any relevance. The description merely serves as a guideline so that it may give a general idea of the content of the music. Our music is very dark in that it deals mainly with the expression and evocation of the darker sides of our collective psyches'. What we create is basically a transposition of our thoughts, emotions, philosophies, experiences, etc. We take our influences from within and try to evoke what is within by translating it into sound. Our darker sides inspire us, for we relate to such emotions closely and embrace them, from our own experiences. The music is vicarious because its atmosphere is such that it can be "lived through" for those whom can relate to it. It is sinister and hateful because these are emotions we feel often and in releasing these emotions it aids the equilibrium of the mind. There is a certain introspective quality to our music that, for us, is therapeutic. The words within the description are all relative, yet there is more. The word "Doom" in the description applies to the linguistic definition of the word, not the media-defined category of "doom metal".
Let's discuss your "Esoteric Emotions" demo a bit. How does it differ from your latest recordings? Did you get any negative reviews?
- Well it differs in that the material was written 7 years ago, so as you might imagine, we have very much progressed since that time. I would say that the music from that era is like a basic transcription of what we do now. It holds the same essence, but is different too. The demo carries much of a similar type of emotion, yet on different levels and areas of the mind. Much of our music can be assimilated, yet it all sounds quite different from one song to the next. The atmospheres are often dark, yet varied. Yes, we did get some negative reviews, as you would expect when releasing something that is unlike anything else. We hadn't matured much as musicians at that time (back in 1992/3) so obviously our writing was far more limited than it is now, but I still believe that it was substantially different in many ways to other bands. We are not really concerned with reviews, as we write the music for ourselves, first and foremost. Our measurement of success comes from our own opinion of what we create. If others like it then it is a bonus upon the additional aim, but it would never manifest itself as a factor within our music. We also had good reviews, but our music is such that only few will really understand and appreciate it.
Both, "Epistemological Despondency" and "The Pernicious Enigma", were brought forth the light by Aesthetic Death, however their latest promo sheets inform us that the third CD of yours will be unleashed through Eibon Records. What roused you to such a decision, i.e. to change the label? Weren't you pleased with the way Stu did his work?
- We had been offered the chance to work with EIBON Records before we released "The Pernicious Enigma". We had known Mauro (EIBON Records) for quite some time, so we knew we could trust him to do his best for the release. After the release of "The Pernicious Enigma" we felt that Stu (Aesthetic Death) had lost interest in his label, so we felt it was time to work with someone else. We are still friends with Stu and there are no hard feelings, but since we put so much effort into the writing and recording of our music, we wanted to work with a label who would put similar effort into promotion, etc. Otherwise we might as well stick to recording the music for ourselves and not releasing it at all. It is the extra costs and time consumption of promotion that can leave you with much less time and money to write and rehearse the music. What good is being well promoted if you have no time to write the music in the first place? We have only ever lost money within this band. We do it because of our absolute passion for the music.
What caused
such a prolonged interval between "Epistemological
Despondency"
and "The Pernicious Enigma" release dates? You see, three years is not
that short…
- Well, there are a few reasons. During spring / summer of 1995, we embarked on two tours, which we had to spend time rehearsing for, in order to get the session drummer up to a good standard. That was time consuming, and then during the second tour the van blew up, destroying most of our equipment. Even though half of it was insured, it took a good three or four months after the disaster before we had enough equipment to even start rehearsing again. Then we (again) had to spend time getting a session drummer (three months) to learn the songs for the 2nd D-CD in order for us to record them. We actually recorded them almost a year before they were released and mixed them a couple of months after recording. It was basically due to a number of reasons, money, artwork delays, pressing plant being very slow, etc. Also, if you consider the length of the release, it is a lot of music.
Have you finally found a suitable drummer? Also, please get us acquainted with ESOTERIC's current lineup…
- Yes, we have finally found a suitable drummer, though he will not become a permanent member. However, we will continue to work with him in the future, both for his technical excellence and for his insight into our music. He is a professional drummer, who makes his living playing, so he cannot devote enough time to be a permanent member to any one band. He will be acquainted with our music, as it is written, so there should no longer be any delays with releases while we seek a competent drummer. We have auditioned countless drummers over the years and we have never been particularly happy with any of them, but found it preferable to using programmed drums (except for a couple of the songs on "The Pernicious Enigma" where the session drummer simply couldn't grasp the time signatures, etc.) Now we have finally found someone who is both more than good enough and has the right perspective to enhance the music. The current line-up is Greg Chandler (myself), Steve Peters, Bryan Beck and Keith York (session drummer).
One
of the things which definitely makes you to stand you against a background
of most contemporary metal bands is the length of songs; moreover, both
albums you have released so far appear as Double-CD's! What is the reason
for that? I wonder whether it comes out naturally or you create such compositions
on purpose? Is there any place for improvisation in studio and how do you
contrive to perform your stuff live? I believe, it's not the kind of music
intented for drunken headbangers…
- It just happens naturally, depending on the time we are looking at recording. We basically record whatever we have ready to record at that time. Everything is created naturally; nothing is stuck within limitations or restrictions. There is a certain element of improvisation in places, yet in the main songs, although it might sound difficult to reproduce, practically every nuance is calculated or reproduced, even though a lot of the ideas or parts are born from improvising in the first instance. We have never been big fans of playing live, mainly because it is hard (without a decent budget) to get everything set up and right within a short (if there is one at all) soundcheck. However, we do enjoy playing our music loud (which is only really possible in a live venue). If we had the opportunity to play live more often without losing so much money, where we got a decent soundcheck, then it would be a much more appealing prospect. No the music isn't intended for anyone other than ourselves, but some will appreciate it in the live environment. If I can take an example of one of our better gigs, then I would quote the gig we did in Leipzig (Germany) in October 1997, where most of the audience were sitting/lying on the floor, drinking, taking drugs, and just absorbing the music. They weren't going crazy, but they created a very relaxed atmosphere where they obviously appreciated the music in the way that it is heard best.
Would you like to enlighten us in regards to your lyrical concept? Such tunes as "At War With The Race" let me assume that you're rather misanthropically-framed person…
- Yes, we are rather misanthropic people. The lyrics deal with many aspects of our own psyche', as I have explained earlier in answer to the second question. The music and lyrics are basically entwined translations of each other, born from different levels and depths of the minds' expression. The lyrics work to enhance the music, reflecting the written medium of the music, and vice versa, where the music seeks to reflect what is written in the lyrics.
Your artwork appears as truly stunning, however I still can't believe that it is hand-made…
- Yes, at least all of the artwork up until "The Pernicious Enigma" was hand-made. On that album the main pieces were hand-made and the booklet artwork was done on the computer. On our latest release, Steve Peters and his brother Chris created all of the artwork on computer. It was Simon who did all of the artwork by hand. He left the band in October 1997, just before we did a few gigs in Germany.
Do you consider ESOTERIC to be an original band? What about such acts as THERGOTHON, DISEMBOWELMENT, ABRUPTUM, UNHOLY, WINTER…?
- Yes, of course. I do not find the atmospheres within our music coming from any other band. There will always be superficial similarities between one band or another, but for those that truly listen, the innovation and originality are obvious. It is something that is commonly spoken of to us, from people that appreciate our music. That we do not sound like any other. It is the same for all innovative, original bands. The only problem is that such bands are few and far between. I have heard all of the bands that you mentioned and I would not say that we sound like any of them. We were immediately compared to such bands when we first started receiving attention, just as SKEPTICISM have occasionally been compared to us (as they started to get attention after we did) but they have their own sound, just as the others mentioned here. We had only even heard of WINTER before these comparisons came about. We have great respect for UNHOLY, who are still going strong, uncompromising and progressing well as ever. WINTER were always great, but their career short-lived. (At least to my knowledge). THERGOTHON and DISEMBOWELMENT were good also, but I felt less passion for their music as the others. I've heard ABRUPTUM, but never really had the chance to get into their music. The problem with the media is that they often look to known bands as links to help describe the music of a "new" band, rather than actually describing their music properly. There are similarities between these bands, yes, but no more so than a fleeting superficial glance could conclude. Anyone that really listened closely would immediately know each band apart.
Will I be wrong supposing that we may reckon ESOTERIC to black metal horde? Does your music have anything to do with the aforementioned genre? Whatever your answer will be, give us an explanation.
- Yes, some people we've come across have compared us to, or listed us within the "black metal" scene. To me it seems ridiculous to list us within a certain genre (or any original band for that matter) because if it is due to some of the more sinister atmospheres within our music, then you might just as well compare us to certain classical music, such as Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring", which has some very sinister and chaotic sections. Too much emphasis is placed on categories, or on comparison. I can see how it might be useful as a guide for someone who is looking for something inparticular, but if there weren't so many plagiarists in the first place it would be easy to find innovative bands, without having to wade through the masses of bands who've never had an original idea in their lives. Humanity is plagued by the "monkey see, monkey do" mentality. There are bands who the media have defined as "black metal" that I appreciate, as with most musical "categories", but I try to ignore what is said of them, unless I hear a recommendation from a source I respect the opinion of. A journalist who has no idea of my taste is hardly a good guide, so why do so many people place importance on reviews. If the descriptions of the music are good then we can make our own inference from that without using the opinions of others as a guideline.
What is view on satanism and modern 'satanic' movements spawning in the enormous number nowadays? Isn't it somehow stupid to worship an alien deity being a person of European origin (since christianity and satanism are Siamsese twins conceived outside Europe)? Personally I believe that one with strong will and mind should escape any kind of beliefs in order to perceive everything himself… Therefore, atheism is the perfect way of the strong.
- This question is going to be rather long-winded if I answer it fully, so here's a brief summary. Yes, there are a lot of satanic movements, though few of them seem active. I don't believe that most whom have any real knowledge of themselves and what they believe to be Satanism believe either in the age-old dualistic philosophies (nothing is black and white) of God versus the Devil, where both represent deities of Good versus Evil. Origin and the segregation of people is something that I really don't believe can work within arguments in this sense, as where do you wish to regress to, if you are taking origin as an example? Is regression infinite or is there a particular marked point in space or time that we can attribute the word "origin" to? No one particularly knows their true origin, except for maybe being able to trace the past few hundred years, which when talking of origin, is a pretty insignificant time span when you consider the time span that humanity has been know to exist (from what we believe to be currently accepted as scientifically "proven"). However, in order to address the question, lets say that you and I are European. Firstly, I believe that like myself, most Satanists build their own path and do not adhere to the doctrines put forward by any orthodox religion. Satanism by its very nature surely cannot be classed as orthodox. There is too much freedom involved within the concept (or what I conceive to be Satanism). Neither do I believe that Satanism is merely the opposite of Christianity or any other religion. Satanism to me is a way of life, conceived not at a certain time or place, but as being something that has existed since existence itself. I do not worship anyone or anything. I try to do my own will and to evolve my own thoughts, philosophies, etc., as a result of my own experiences, through my own empirical perception. If you look to the religions of most countries / places, you will see that there is the notion of a God and a Devil. So, where was this idea first introduced? Satanism is something that seems to me, to be a concept that is easiest to attribute to freethinkers. People unbound by religion, by dogma. The use of dogma and archetypes is not to enslave but to evolve. Such facets are used in ritual, as a means to an end. They are stepping-stones to reaching the required states of consciousness, through will and intellect. I acquire my knowledge and beliefs through my own experiences, not through the teachings of another. I do not believe in a God or Devil, but in the power of the mind. Anyone that believes something without questioning or experience of the said belief is only believing and not seeing. I prefer to see things for myself, through my own senses and experience.
What is your view on that famous "the strongest survives" assertion? I agree totally, but only on condition that certain individual has to be "the strongest one" both physically and spiritually - don't you think so?
- Well, I agree that it generally holds true, though there will always be exceptions. I don't agree that the individual has to be strongest both mentally and physically, though the advent of both would increase chances of survival. There is always going to be someone stronger than yourself (physically) and so often mental strength and cunning are necessary to survive. For example, if one were more cunning than the other was but physically less strong, I would usually expect them to survive more easily. One can easily be outnumbered in life in many situations, both in mental and physical battles. It is this kind of congregation of the weak that has allowed the doctrines of orthodox religions to maintain their social and political control of the masses.
I broached
the subject of "satanism" in one of the former questions,
therefore
let's get back to it for one last time. I bet, you have read Dante's "Divine
Comedy"? What is your opinion on his description of Inferno? (I don't believe
in hell or anything like that, and I guess nor do you, however it seems
to be quite interesting topic to be discussed anyway)
- No, I haven't read Dante's "Divine Comedy". I have read many books which to me, touch upon the concept of Satanism in one form or another, but as with all books, I view them as food for thought. The words of another can only count in terms of relativity. Knowledge comes from within. It is often possible to agree with certain writings as a result of one's own experience, but words cannot count as being first-hand knowledge, unless you are thinking in purely analytical terms. I do not have any conception of Hell as it is often portrayed in biblical terms. It is like an interesting picture painted from the imagination of the writer, not something to be thought of as real.
"Drug-influenced…", this is the quote from your description of ESOTERIC's style I mentioned above… So it seems like you take drugs? What exactly? Furthermore, why??? Are you one of those who consider drugs a kinda step to 'another level of subconscious'? If yes, let me ask you the following question: if someone will addict your beloved child to drugs by force and he / she starts taking heroin more and more frequently becoming a person of unsound mind… what would you do? Would you keep on pushing your theory forward?
- Yes, we do take drugs on occasions, yes. Mainly hallucinogens, natural drugs, as opposed to manufactured drugs. We have taken many different kinds of drugs, some just once, some a few times, and others sometimes more frequently. From my own experience with drugs, I believe that my use of certain drugs (those which heighten sensory and mental perception) has enabled me to explore the recesses of my mind at different levels, thereby quickening the general evolution of my mind and the way in which expression can flow through these "widened" channels. There are many mediums that can alter the senses, by providing alternative or broader horizons, and they are not always physical objects or something that one must imbibe. There are many levels of consciousness to be explored. Drugs do not provide anything that is not already within the mind; they can merely act upon what is already within. I do not push any theory forward, relative to any one else. I only speak from my own experiences and I have never encouraged others to do as I do. So, if others take whatever, then that is down to them. Drug addiction is something that is rarely forced upon an individual; at least I haven't encountered anyone who says that it has happened to them. Usually addiction to whatever medium is through self-negligence or stupidity, not through the force of an external influence. It is easy to name a scapegoat, but unless physical enforcement is used, then it is not really a question of force. Drug addiction is not an immediate thing, even with the most dangerous of drugs. If the mind taking them is already unsound then it is possible that addiction or perceived addiction might be quite immediate, but then the medium of self-abuse could be anything. There are many forms of self-abuse that the weak can use. I do not have any children, but I would like to think that if I did I would be able to educate them well enough not to get themselves within the position whereby they were forced to take drugs for long enough to become addicted. Rather a pointless end to the question.
Ok, enough. It strikes as we reviewed this topic rather extensivenessly, hence let me turn to other thing, this time 'natural balance'…
- Natural balance. And what of it? It exists surely as the chemical balance within our brains must exist in order that they function well and efficiently. There are no hard and fast rules and our knowledge of both is limited. Personally I can assimilate the balance of nature to the balance of my own mind. Instincts play an important role in order to understand and attain one's will. Acting upon them is then a matter of diplomacy governed by our rationale. At least, I try to find a balance between the two.
War: is it a necessity or a nightmare we can't escape? Some say that war is some sort of a barometer controlling human population, although it's pretty goddamn obnoxious when war takes your father or sister or friend's life…
- Well, I guess that War has always been known as a having useful side effects in terms of keeping populations under control, but whether it is a necessity or a nightmare is not really a factor. Simply put, I don't believe that it is something that can be argued about in this sense, because it is not something that can be stopped. If it were not a part of man's nature, then why is it that as far as History goes, there has been no time in which there has not been Warfare in at least some quarter of the planet? War is a nightmare for most, yes, but at the same time, there are instances in which it is either unavoidable or indeed, necessary. At least from someone's point of view. I don't really have an opinion on War itself. It is intrinsic; it is within each of us to fight and to kill, where our lives are threatened or our livelihoods under duress from external forces. War is just a personal feud on a mass scale. Only the reasons for it themselves change. Most war now is political, as the earth's resources become more scarce and large corporation's dictate how the countries are governed. It doesn't interest me unless it directly affects me, for who am I to poke my nose into the business of some other people where I have not been around to see all of the facts. I would not trust the media for the facts within war, certainly not in political terms. The death tolls might be correct, but the facts depend upon which side of the fence the media are sitting upon. War does a little in keeping the population down, but it is hardly escalating at the same rate as the amount of people overcrowding this earth. Perhaps as the problem increases, it will.
Would
you agree with me if I told you that World War III is approaching? At least,
I'm strongly assured that mankind has less than hundred years left until
all of us cease to exist…
- I certainly wouldn't dismiss it, but at the same time, I don't necessarily believe that it HAS to happen soon. There seems to be a real hype about the approaching Millennium. Everyone that fucking sells anything or provides any service here in England is really cashing in on the hysteria. It seems strange that a date of supposed religious significance has to be hyped up to the point of stupidity, where the prophet's cash in on visions of Armageddon, and every religious fanatic is on their knees crying in desperation for something to happen. Religious people everywhere are fearing for or calling for the end of the world, possibly because they feel that mankind deserves to die for it's sins, and maybe because it is their fucking desperate plea to their "God" to give them a sign of their "omnipotent" existence. It would be quite a fitting end to the fucking ignorance of the orthodox religions if their fucking doomsday visions came true. I certainly believe that there is something to be said for the fact that most of the fanatics will be disappointed when/if nothing happens to at least give them a sign. Any occurrence without a simple scientific explanation will do any sign that can be misconstrued to increase faith. If nothing happens, you can be sure that some will make something happen. On the Eve of the year 2000, you can bet that all of the lunatics will have their say. The scale of whatever occurs then will be hard to predict, but there will be much celebration and there will also be a lot of imbalanced people acting out their visions. Whether any wars will be escalating is also questionable. There are plenty still happening through 1999. I don't see how you can put a time-scale on the amount of years we have left. The one thing that amuses me about the significance of certain dates is that going by the global calendar, they are not even entirely accurate. Throughout history there have been prophecies of our end, plagues and natural disasters to be taken as signs, etc, etc. None of them have been correct so far, so I guess we will have to wait and see.
Talking
about the war phenomenon, I can't leave unmentioned all that
Serbia
/ Kosovo stuff… and I am really curious about your opinion on it.
- To be quite honest, it would be unfair of me to give an opinion on the subject because the conflict there has not affected me personally.
(Editor's
note - sorry, our precious reader, but this
question is a bit outdated, since the interview was written by me in July
1999...
and answered
few months later)
What about NATO? Don't you think that this organization is itching for the universal rule so that they could impend a new world order according to their needs and ideals (erh… I really doubt if anyone of them has any ideals)? Serbia was only the first one… though, unfortunately, I fear that it's not the kind of case when 'the first one will be the last one'. The way they treat Serbia is the way they will eliminate all the objectionable States…
- Well, Serbia is neither the first NATO "victim" (there have been others before them), and neither do I believe that NATO is anything other than certain allied countries trying to use politics to their advantage, in whatever form. Many countries or groups of countries have certain allies where they will unite in order to gain or maintain their power. All governments try to protect their land and increase their power. It is the very nature of politics. All governments oppress their own people and take from other governments where they can. Money, land, goods, belief and the flow of resources are often the key factors in War and there must be a vested interest in order for a government to get involved in any War. NATO are bullies to some extent, yes. I think you might be right in the sense that they wish for World Domination on a political and economic stage, but I doubt that they would openly pursue the elimination of objectionable states. There is still enough opposition and internal disagreement for them to have to appear to justify themselves "righteously", though obviously the opposition would not see any justification. Even still, there are more religious wars than political, even though the two concepts might be said to be closely matched. I do not involve myself in politics or in anything that the British government (or any other government) does, unless it personally affects me. Seeing as I try to keep myself isolated and live rather a different life to the average "citizen", little they do does.
Personally I find torture as fascinating appearance, especially when there's a chance for you to torture your enemy in a moral, aesthetic way… although, torturing certain person physically also yields considerable pleasure…
- Well, yes, torture is satisfying if it is poured upon someone you feel deserves it. It is a natural feeling for anyone when someone has done something extreme enough to warrant such a reaction.
This is not a question, but more like a topic for you to meditate upon: "Nitzsche = antichrist". Besides that, this man was known as christianity's antagonist in the same time being adherent of buddhism… well, maybe not adherent… but he definitely sympathized with it… and it's one more topic I want you to speak about…
- Well, I think that Nietszche could be assimilated to an Anti-Christ, if we are to take the meaning in its literal form, because he was indeed anti-Christian. He was a very intelligent man, and I find myself having empathy for certain of his thoughts concerning Christianity. I don't find myself too taken by the philosophies of Buddhism, from the little I've got to know about it, but then I am not knowledgeable enough on that particular philosophy to give a definitive opinion.
What is your attitude to Internet and the World Wide Web? Any plans to upload ESOTERIC's homepage in the nearest time to come?
- I do not have personal access to the Internet, though Steve (one of the members of ESOTERIC) does. He deals with the Web-site (creation and update of) and with all e-mails, etc. From what I've seen of the Internet, it certainly does have some very good uses, in obtaining software, information, etc. Steve has completely re-done the Web-Site in these past few weeks as our new CD has now been released through EIBON Records.
Are you interested in British history? I mean the ancient days… cromlech rites… druids…
- Well, history always carries certain valuable thoughts and is interesting at times, but I am not a particularly keen historian and I tend to read very little lately. Instead I spend more time building my own path.
And what about the Celtic / Irish sagas? Lately I've skimmed "The Cycle Of Finn" as well as few other narratives (the ones telling about Cuchulainn, etc etc etc) and found them damn interesting…
- As above. I've read certain extracts and parts of books, but my time is very full. I tended to read a lot in recent years.
What do you know (and think) about Russia? Any Russian metal bands you've heard lately?
- Our knowledge of Russia and its customs are quite limited here. Often it is dressed with the propaganda that the media or government likes to portray. I guess that the Russian media might be the same concerning England. You seem to have a very healthy underground scene there, or at least there seems to be a lot of people and bands into extreme underground music. I haven't heard any Russian bands lately. APOSTATE was the last. They're quite good, heavy and dark. I owe them a letter and tape still, which I have not forgotten. The truth is that I haven't done any mail for a couple of years. It had got to the point where I was spending everything I had just to keep the mail going and I had little time left for anything except interviews and mail. It is no good promoting ESOTERIC if you have no time or money to write, rehearse and record new material. We mainly just process orders (which are quite few) answer interviews (where possible) and Steve handles the e-mail. We don't even get many letters anymore. We also do a mail-shot with each release, to let people know whom we've been in contact with.
This is twenty seventh question and my hands are tired of typing, so let's stop here. Thanks for your patience, Greg, and if there's anything you wish to add, do it now…
- Thank you for the interview. Your support is much appreciated. Current news concerns the recent release of our 3rd Full-length CD through EIBON Records (Italy). It is 44 minutes long containing three new songs of disquieting, malignant atmosphere. The music is a progression and evolution from the last release (as always) but it is still as heavy (if not heavier) and as dark and insane as ever. See addresses below for contact details.
ESOTERIC contact
-
Email: esoteric@bereft.demon.co.uk
URL: www.bereft.demon.co.uk